Podcast 120 – Retribution Discussion!

Sorry for the delay due to my computer/software sucking last week… but your patience has been rewarded!

It’s a doozy, folks. Another 5 hours, talking about all the pointy eared genocidal maniacs. ALL of them. For five consecutive hours!

Direct Download

Do let us know what we got wrong! Menoth is coming up next week! Because, obviously, spending over 10 hours recording and editing a podcast in a week is a totally reasonable thing for me to do! ^_^

(We really are going to try and keep them under 4 hours from now on… this is getting a little ridiculous!)

9 thoughts on “Podcast 120 – Retribution Discussion!

    • Glad you enjoyed it! And equally glad that we got it out finally… this podcast (without exaggeration) took us over 14 hours of solid work to complete. Ridiculous.

      I’ve switched our software for a program that shows me it’s recording as it does so (like, with a little squiggly line so I know it’s actually getting sound). That helps ease my concerns a lot, and we’ll move forward with it for now and hope that this nonsense of dropping recordings is in our past! Thanks for everyone’s patience!

  1. This is super muffled and inaudible? idk if thats a word but i cant hear anything but rumbles, direct download just opens in another window ? would love to hear this one.

    • Hmmm. I’ll look into it, sorry you’re having this problem! Does other audio work for you? Might be a headphone/speaker issue?

      Try right-clicking on the “Direct Download” button to save the MP3 of the podcast itself.

  2. I’m a Cygnar guy and I play against a lot of Ret. When listening to this episode I get a sinking feeling. There’s so many dominating models and units that have insane utility (eg Discordia) or can skew hard (eg Sentinels) that I’m finding it hard to build a list against Ret that doesn’t leave me open against every other army in the game. Where as if I try to make an all comers list it’s painfully under powered.

    I’m mk2 the answers where easy to come by. MHSF? ATGMs. Sentinels? Kill the UA. Need to jam? Boomhowlers.

    Now I’m lacking some major tools and it seems like Ret has only gained some. Kaeyssa has some major upkeep hate with the guns and the feat is ball busting, Hylena has rhythm of war and hand of destruction (That was a mean BB fight). Ossyan ugh, Garreth. One could claim that they can’t fuel all these kick ass spells but with 3 Arcanists and Helios coming down the pipe a caster can upkeep everything and all their jacks can be fueled, and still be sitting on enough focus to stop an assassination run. Even stealth, Rets kryptonite doesn’t seem to be much of an issue anymore.

    My next problem is that it seems I’m always out threatened. Between move and shoot abilities, move then charge abilities, or one round skews I don’t have much chance of ever getting in the first strike or if I do it’s so blunted it’s worthless. Halberdier’s have such a long charge range I don’t even have a until that can run to jam them. Before premeasuring it would be hard to gauge such things so jamming would work. Now, with known threat ranges he can stay just ouf of my ranges yet still charge in.

    Perhaps I just need to retreat for a turn and give him a few CP so he can burn off his mini feats.

    Thanks for the vent and also thanks for any insight you could bring.

    • Vent away, fellow Swan!
      Don’t get me wrong, I think Ret is beatable, but they ARE far more terrifying than they were in Mk2. And that’s saying something. Some general advice:
      1. Retribution lists tend to rely on an absolutely crippling alpha strike. If they don’t swing the attrition heavily enough, they tend to lose in the long run pretty consistently. As a result, avoid fielding armies with only a few high-value targets (whether those are colossals, only a single heavy, or one or two power solos that “tie” the rest of the army together). Ret has the tools to scalpel out 2-3 models, no matter what those models are. Instead, try to bring lots of relatively low value but tanky targets (instead of 1 Stormwall, 2 Defenders and a couple lights. Instead of Katherine Laddermoore, a full unit of Stormlances, etc…).
      2. Halberdiers are always a problem. They’re fast, they’re had to take off at a distance, and if they can’t charge you they’ll still run just to tie you up. Thankfully, Cygnar has plenty of tools to clear them out at range (Storm Striders, Lightning Towers, Fireflies, Nemo3’s gun, etc…), keep them from charging (Haley1, Covering Fire, Haley2, Polarity Field), and to clear them out once engaged (Stormguard, Stormblades, anything with e-leap). Just make sure none of your guns are within run-and-engage range, or you’ll probably be a sad puppy, and keep your cavalry far away from them.
      3. Lastly, Cavalry are your friend. Stormlance clear infantry like champs (in theory, a full unit can wipe out 20 models without factoring in Impact attacks) and can crack ARM when needed, and Blazers are fantastic at countering Ret’s own long range models (Stormfall Archers, in particular). Avoid getting them jammed, stick to the flanks, and know when to commit one or two to protect the rest. And be very, very careful against Ossyan.

      That’s about it. In my (limited) experience against Ret so far in Mk3, the trick is to know that you’re never going to have that “perfect” game we sometimes got in Mk2 where you wiped out your opponent to the model while taking 2-3 casualties yourself. Just not gonna happen. Pick your battles, prioritize killing ALL the Sentinels or NONE of the Sentinels (the break-even point is 6. If you’re confident you can take 6 or more of them off the table in one turn, do it. Otherwise, it’s probably better to let them kill a heavy and wipe them out next turn), and watch out for Rahn’s incredible scenario control.

      My go-to warcasters are still any of the Haleys (Haley2 is still the strongest, Haley3 is incredible, Haley1 is good), Nemo3, Sloan (better with her new Feat), or Stryker1/Sturgis. I suspect Siege is still strong (haven’t tried him yet), and Stryker2 or Stryker3 probably have game (but again, haven’t tried ’em).

      Good luck! I’ll try to get a Ret-game in before long and report here!

      Thanks for commenting!

      • I’ve played against Sentinels with Siege and even though he ground off my front line of trenchers the feat turn was LoL against his super boosted Sentinels. Sadly the counter attack via Garryth and Moros was enough to do him in. Had I been 1/4″ back behind the smoke rather than in it I would have survived. Loss of foxhole’s good stuff really took him down a peg and explosivo getting better didn’t take up the slack.

        Since then I think I’ve played some bad match ups while looking for a favorite caster.

        Next, I don’t quite understand why Storm Lances would be good against Ret. Wouldn’t the lances just be cut down by MHSF, snipers, rifle team? Granted, I’ve just assembled them and have yet to run them but at least on paper I’m not seeing why they are so good. Ok I can see why they are good but without buffs like arcane shield (everything in Ret is blessed) can they even be delivered? Or are they a counter punch?

        Finally Sentinels. WTF?!? Is there anything they can’t do? Fast, high arm, shieldwall, reach, vengeance, weapon master, pathfinder. They’re the pre nerf Warders of MK2 except there is 11 of them. Their only weakness is instant one point of damage. Widowmakers would just laugh at them with their sniper shots. Speaking of which, where are Cygnar’s snipers? Trencher UA and Arcane Riflemen really? Would have loved to have seen B13 pick up an ability like that. Granted this package is an insane point sink to dial them up to 11 (Disco + Artificer) but when every single list I’ve played against in Mk3 has them I have to ask the question, are they too good?

        As for other casters, I lament my loss of Caine2. I loved Magic Bullet and Blur. His guns are a sad replacement. Pow 12 guns in an army of pow 10 guns isn’t scaring anyone.

        I’ll have to bring out the Haleys. In Mk2 I didn’t want to be “that guy” so I only brought H2 out when my friends started talking trash. I’m guessing that may be more often. As for H3, I can’t figure her out. What is she supposed to be? Jack caster, spell slinger, utility piece? I think I need to watch a few BatReps to see what people are doing with her.

        I think my last problem is that I only own one of a model. Mk2 running multiples of the same jack just wasn’t a thing. Who needed 2 Defenders when you could just take a Stormwall? I guess those times are a changing.

      • Good points! I think Caine probably has game… most Ret warcasters will die to a billion POW10s eventually, and he can certainly deliver that, but I don’t think he’s as terrifying as people think he is.

        Haley3 is a toolbox warcaster (unlike Haley2, who is a scenario warcaster, or Haley1, who is an attrition warcaster). But I haven’t tried her in Mk3 yet, so I can only comment on it in theory.

        Storm Lances, however, are great. They’ll shrug off MHSF these days (unless Ossyan/Issyria’s Feat turn), are unlikely to be directly hit by Stormfalls often (unless Ravyn/Ossyan), hit like trucks and clear infantry like champs. They’re downside is they tend to die after being committed, but their new Reposition Rules really, really help with that. Just remember they’re not front-line models (screen them with something cheap if you can… Stormguard are good), or keep them on a flank until you need them.

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